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Future of smart homes, open or closed?

Do you think systems will merge and open up in the future, or will it continute to be Every brand for itself with proprietary languages?

As long as money is the driver and there are investors and stakeholders involved I think we will continue to see different brands coming and going. Just look at the computer industry, many things would have benefit from one standard, instead we have - how many? Nevertheless, I’d love some hardware letting people chose whether loading open source or manufacturers propriety software.

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Yes, I agree, money is the thing keeping information locked in. But, companies need customers, and I feel that right now customers want freedom and interoperability. If this spirit is kept, at least by us serious and tech interested home automation customers, I think the market can evolve in the right direction. Neither Z-Wave nor Zigbee are open source, but at least Z-wave is an standard that is open, for the brands that certify. That is kind of open? I think we need standards at least, think ATX, and power plugs.

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Money is the driver for almost erverything, but the most powerful platforms are open source, so I think there will be a coexistance, like it is now.
A few people like to fiddle about, but the majority wants a plug’n*play solution.
I am not a friend of open “standards”, we all know about the trouble with Zigbee, which I take as an open standard, or maybe, a semi-standard.
A “tight” standard like Z-Wave offers more opportunities to a wider range of developers, for they know it will work on different platforms.
Looks like we have different definitions of open. :upside_down_face:
Hope you understand what I was trying to say.

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To dream freely, the perfect device would for me be where the hardware and system software are propriety, governed by the manufacturer, and firmware is open source, integrated with closed source protocols. Closed standard tends to be more stable - you always know what standard X is all about and if it will work with device Y. :animusheart:

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To me it’s a scale, with closed products that don’t even tell you what protocol it’s using, to open source. It’s all in there somewhere.

I think hubs and gateways will continue to offer different levels of complexity/plug’n’play, but the amount of protocols used will decrease over time, as consensus about what is good and rubbish grows. Zigbees main selling point is that it’s cheap, because you don’t have to certify (?), and when the market grows z-wave could keep the reliability but lower prices per unit? Thus, lessening the appeal of Zigbee.

In my understanding zwave is licenced, therefore royalties have to be payed for each device and that drive the cost up, but ZigBee is an open free to use standard, therefore cheaper to implement. Am I wrong?

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That is my understanding as well

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Same here. But Zigbee is not open, I think, you have to pay a memberhip fee or something. What I ment is if they want to compete, and the marker is big enough, they could lower that fee, and still make plenty of money. Both Zigbee and Z-wave could live on like they do now, but chanses are, that one of them will be the rinner and the order the loser. Of course they both want to be the winner.

But then you have the different “sub-standards”. Z-wave, plus… etc. Different zigbee-standards. The company’s (or what they prefer to call themselves) that own the rights for the standards needs to set an standard in the standard. It’s the only way to get a couple different main standards where devices are able to talk to each other.

In my world this is a total dream. Cause then the only company’s that make money is the one’s that sells them cheap. And the market will be flooded with sensors and switches that are cheap but potentially dangerous due to the makers will to make money in a market with really small margins. And then we haven’t even started to talk about the rights and situation for the employees that are hired to make these devices. You can see this already now with for example the xiaomi device’s. These sensors is one of the most wishable and why? Is it cause these are really well thought out with massive investments in development? Nope, it is the price that matter. We, the customers decides what to reward when we buy our devices. This is one of the reasons why i bought the animus heart.

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Let’s see if I understand you correctly. Yes there are different versions and sub-standards, but Z-waves new version has always been backwards compatible, which makes it a version more than a sub-standard.

Do you think having one standard, for example (or a few) is bad? Because price and quality will be the difference between products then? We will still have the possibility to choose quality and good and fair production. Also, high price doesn’t really mean fair product, and developed in Sweden doesn’t mean child labour free. I’m a big fan of Fairphone, and I’m ready to pay more for a lesser product, because that direction is where I want production to go. I want more products to be fair, and none are!

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Right, at least it is up to everyone of us to buy responsibly.
But for most people the price is the main argument of course, and looking back in history, it seems, that most of the time the cheapest standard did survive. (Does anyone remember VCRs where VHS has made it? :blush: , also Plasma-TVs is a good example for swapping quality with price).
But there is and I believe always will be a market for high quality and also fair products, not only in the technical sector, also I think, there’s a (slowly growing) awareness for that.

:sweat_smile: highly questionable what i meant… But as a summary, my thoughts and fear is to have cheapish systems with questionable work and employment-conditions that produce underdeveloped devices with malware or secret communication to different country’s, with stolen/copied design but that are really cheap to customers. Think some chinese ip-cameras.

And of course, it’s always the customer that decide to buy these devices but as we all know, money talks.

The thing in standards is that we probably will continue to have proprietary standards as long it’s possible for these company’s to “adjust” the standard to make it closed and to only work with their own devices. As you say @Gordon z-wave is a bad example of me. Is it any more understanable? Read original post myself and hardly understand what i meant :joy:

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I hear what you are saying :slight_smile: And I agree!

Is this what we are waiting for? https://www.macrumors.com/2019/12/18/apple-amazon-google-zigbee-open-standard/?fbclid=IwAR2hyCqE-6n38y1O6VPIBPU07P8DHEJ8HTSpkaVm1wYf2S6wlhNRrs4NdMU

Sounds promising to me! Open source, and royalty free, on GitHub :slight_smile:

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Quite interesting article about ikea smart home.

Sounds promising! :+1:

Swedish site and language, be aware :grin:
Z-wave gonna be a open standard.

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Amazon, Apple and Google, sounds like a quite unholy alliance, am I the only one beeing scared of this?

At least:
“Z-Waves ägare Silicon Labs är dock medlemmar i Zigbees Alliance och kommer att bidra till CHIP.”
Thanks to Google translator. :relieved:

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Nope, i can see the reason to be scared… The good(?) thing in is that apple is on the train as well… As i have understood apple is the one of the three that at least care a little about the users privacy. :smirk: in other cases well have lights and sensors that send all info to google and amazon and a booklet of 300 pages with user agreement with every device :laughing:

it’s gonna be quite interesting to see what kind of standard they planning to build.

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Hmm, i understand your worry, but having a good standard is not in it self going to change the situation we have today, or might get tomorrow. Google and Amazon are what they are, and will do whatever they are even without a common standard. In my opinion, this can only ( ok, like 90% ) be good. Open source is the best thing we can hope for in terms of privacy too (says the not expert).

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